Motoren zur Gimbal Brushless Controller

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Stef Stuntpiloot

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#21
#21
I Understand that I need to rewind to about 15Ohm with wire but I wonder:
Do I calculate this from A to B (picture below) Or from A to C? In other words,
Do I devide the 15 Ohm (and the wire to reach this) Over 4 or 8 teeth from my 12teeth motor?
In option One I need 6.7 meters for every teeth, In the second option only 3.35.

 
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Stef Stuntpiloot

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#23
#23
Hello TomRi, Thank you! I started winding the motors, I meassure a piece of copper for every teeth and mark it with a black marker. This works for now so I will need to test it when I'm done. Can I test the motor on a regular ESC?
 
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Stef Stuntpiloot

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#24
#24
Let's continue here with searching for good motors and more powerfull motors for our gimbal's.

The main question: How can we increase poweroutput from the brushless motors?

Some options:

- Increasing the stator size (In diameter or hight)
- Increasing/decreasing resistance of the motorwire?
- Increasing poweroutput from the controller
 
T

TomRi

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#25
#25
increasing voltage works for sure
(Zenmuse works on 6S batt and has around 1kg of torque, inspected one today, amazingly made!)

I think height increasing is better, you can have bigger magnets and coils, which make motor move.
and if you increase diameter, magnets must travel longer path to spin axle for same amount of degree, so it could be slower on response.
 
FerdinandK

FerdinandK

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#26
#26
@TomRi
Are you sure about the Zen Motors operating on 6S? Up to my information they operate on 12V ,there is a switching bec inside the Zen Controler (that is why the cooling parts are on top of the controler housing).

best regards

Ferdinand
 
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TomRi

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#27
#27
maybe, didn't measure it :)
but wires are so thin that I logicaly assumed they pass
24V and only 1/2 of current needed at 12V for the same ammount of watts.

but nevermind, did you feel the torque by hand?
I think with our brushless rewinded motors we NEVER can get them to be so strong. :(
(+ wires inside ZEN motors aren't so thin like ours)0.10-0.15mm), it seemed like > 0.3mm)
 
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Stef Stuntpiloot

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#28
#28
The zenmuse motors are 24V versions so it should work on a high voltage. Maybe it's a stepup that uses the coolingblock on top of de GCU.

The controller we have accepts up to 35volts so we should be able to test it on higher voltages. What risks are there with increasing the voltage in our system, is it stronger but does it heat up faster? Does it get To hot? Does it need other motor wiring? Might be interesting to check...

About the strength of our motors, the 4404 motors using 4S batteries do come close to the zenmuse power but a big difference is that the dynamic power is really high of the zenmuse while our motors lose a lot of holding strength while on the move.
 
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ray_tracer

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#29
#29
Stef Stuntpiloot hat gesagt.:
The controller we have accepts up to 35volts so we should be able to test it on higher voltages. What risks are there with increasing the voltage in our system, is it stronger but does it heat up faster? Does it get To hot? Does it need other motor wiring? Might be interesting to check...
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
35V is also the limit of 78L05 linear voltage regulator on board. I can't try it - electronics are there but no motors.

Stef Stuntpiloot hat gesagt.:
About the strength of our motors, the 4404 motors using 4S batteries do come close to the zenmuse power but a big difference is that the dynamic power is really high of the zenmuse while our motors lose a lot of holding strength while on the move.
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
I ordered some other motors with a 24N22P setup - will try them as soon as they arrive...
 
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Stef Stuntpiloot

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#32
#32
I just tested the motors on 2,3,4,5 and 6S. 2S does not work here at this moment. There is a difference between the steps and 6S does generate more power, more speed and also a lot more heat than 3S. But I can't say the torque has doubled.... The controller is warm after testing 6S. When I use 3 or 4S it does not get warm at all.

I tested each step about 2 minutes, so it gets hot after about 1.5/2 minutes
 
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ray_tracer

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#33
#33
Stef Stuntpiloot hat gesagt.:
I just tested the motors on 2,3,4,5 and 6S. 2S does not work here at this moment. There is a difference between the steps and 6S does generate more power, more speed and also a lot more heat than 3S. But I can't say the torque has doubled.... The controller is warm after testing 6S. When I use 3 or 4S it does not get warm at all.

I tested each step about 2 minutes, so it gets hot after about 1.5/2 minutes
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
Hot like hand-warm or fry-an-egg? But definitely too much as it seems.
Do the zen-muse motors get warm during operation?

I suspect there's much potential in the whole motor setup. Maybe we need 6S + finer wire on the motor...
 
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Stef Stuntpiloot

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#34
#34
Other wiring for 6S setup
What would that add? Thinner wire? I now used 0.2mm wire on this motor, Should I change to 0.1 for the higher voltage? And what would be the reason for that? (sorry for all the questions, im kind of a noob when it comes to electronics but do like to learn)

Zenmuse motor experience
Zenmuse motors are cold, maybe a little warm but nothing significant. I could make photo's of all the zenmuse parts if that helps? The zenmuse has speedcontrollers and hallsensors build next to the motor at each motor. these speedcontrollers exist of 5 boards solderd in a boxform to save space. The big difference is when I move the the arm on the zenmuse the resistance given by the zenmuse is smooth while with these 12/14 pole motors you feel clear steps between the magnets. But I cannot test the max resistance/power of the zenmuse because it shuts down when something blocks its movement. after a few seconds it turns back on (the motors)

With this test:
2S - Does not work right, not enough power : cold
3S - Most used on the testgroup enough power for a gopro and small camera mount : cold, maybe a little warm
4S - A bit more power, PIDS need to be changed : A little warm. When you move a lot it gets warm (same as the back of a TV) after about 10/15 minutes
5S - A bit more power than 4S, not really noticable but its a bit more persistant in keeping its heading : Warm after about 5 minutes.
6S - noticable more power, not double the power of 3S but significant. : Warm after about 3 minutes and hot after about 5 minutes ( everything metal that's part of the motor and the mounting screws get hot)

I use 0.2mm wire and have about 15 ohm resistance in the motor.
 
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ray_tracer

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#35
#35
Stef Stuntpiloot hat gesagt.:
Other wiring for 6S setup
What would that add? Thinner wire? I now used 0.2mm wire on this motor, Should I change to 0.1 for the higher voltage? And what would be the reason for that? (sorry for all the questions, im kind of a noob when it comes to electronics but do like to learn)
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
I'm no expert on motors, but maybe more resistance allows you to use higher voltages without more current.
And higher voltage might lead to quicker response times, because the magnetic flux can be change quicker.
But that's all speculation from my side. I'm waiting for my motors and then I'll hand this over to a friend of mine who might be a LITTLE bit better than me in this regard.

Stef Stuntpiloot hat gesagt.:
Zenmuse motor experience
Zenmuse motors are cold, maybe a little warm but nothing significant. I could make photo's of all the zenmuse parts if that helps? The zenmuse has speedcontrollers and hallsensors build next to the motor at each motor. these speedcontrollers exist of 5 boards solderd in a boxform to save space. The big difference is when I move the the arm on the zenmuse the resistance given by the zenmuse is smooth while with these 12/14 pole motors you feel clear steps between the magnets. But I cannot test the max resistance/power of the zenmuse because it shuts down when something blocks its movement. after a few seconds it turns back on (the motors)
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
Some macro pictures would be highly appreciated!

Stef Stuntpiloot hat gesagt.:
With this test:
2S - Does not work right, not enough power : cold
3S - Most used on the testgroup enough power for a gopro and small camera mount : cold, maybe a little warm
4S - A bit more power, PIDS need to be changed : A little warm. When you move a lot it gets warm (same as the back of a TV) after about 10/15 minutes
5S - A bit more power than 4S, not really noticable but its a bit more persistant in keeping its heading : Warm after about 5 minutes.
6S - noticable more power, not double the power of 3S but significant. : Warm after about 3 minutes and hot after about 5 minutes ( everything metal that's part of the motor and the mounting screws get hot)

I use 0.2mm wire and have about 15 ohm resistance in the motor.
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....
Ok. So 6s is not the way to go at the moment.

Thanks for trying...

Ray
 
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Stef Stuntpiloot

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#40
#40
Nice decoration :p



To get back on subject zenmuse uses to keep its position:
- gyro/accelerometer on cameraplate
- Gyro accelerometer/compass on model
- hall sensors
- Rotary encoders

These control Maxxon motors that use 14teeth and 16 magnets. Wrapped in star configuration.
 
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FPV1

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